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Justify

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tyedye View Drop Down
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  Quote tyedye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:23am
Originally posted by cadet

I’m less concerned with did or didn’t Bob cheat... I’m more interested in finding out if more horses tested positive. Can this be used as a masking agent?

And can we please have a legit governing body Making consistent decision on a sport that people gamble on internationally.

My eyes were opened big time with the news of Masochistic being DQ in the Breeders Cup for steroids (or something similar). That it’s actually legal to give to horses as long as they are given ample withdrawal time.

I’d like to know if it’s possible that you can give a horse steroid or something similar ( designer) that would provide benefits over 4 months and maybe hide such drug with Jimsyn Weed?

I find it hard to believe that with out a powerful central body that horse racing is totally clean.

Right or wrong Waremblems comments “I trust bob cause he said he didn’t cheat” reminds me a lot of the baseball players in front of congress saying they didn’t take steroids. Or Lance or any number of Olympian’s etc etc etc...


I keenly remember the hebrew hammer talking AD-NAUSEUM about how he was clean and was willing to let the test conductor have his name dragged through the mud and basically ruined multiple times over until he could punched in his face with the obvious Biogenesis evidence.
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  Quote beisbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 12:58pm
Carfeul with the personal attacks, please. I still have to pretend to moderate this place.

I understand that the media is a big part of the story itself, but let's not lose the forest for the trees here.

If that is too metaphorical for you, please attack the NYTimes and Fox News and whatever other media you don't like, elsewhere. If I see a 9/11 related-post on this forum I will delete it immediately.
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  Quote beisbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:08pm
Having said that...

The original story is written in sensational style and is not really relevant to the horse (Justify) or the Triple Crown. It's really a story about the CHRB and how they decided to squelch a potentially embarrassing test positive on their most famous (and coddled?) celebrity, in the run up to the most important horse race in the hemisphere.

Contamination in horse racing is very real, and drug tests are super-sensitive. People get in trouble all the time for giving their horses (or human athletes) things w/o knowing what is in them.

But.... 300 ng/ml is a lot of anything. By my calculations (at 54.5 Liters of blood per adult horse) that would be 16.3 grams of scopolamine.

Seems like a whole lot!

Why should anyone listen to what I say about scopolamine? I use scopolamine on and off to treat my vertigo... if I am having trouble focusing or the ear pain is too strong, the patch gives me a little buzz and relieves the disoriented / foggy feeling in my head for a few days. Absolutely beneficial for driving.

(Editor's note: Sorry, Itch!)

I'll do some reading to find out exactly how much scopolamine is in jimson weed.

The bigger question is... if Justify had a positive test based on gross contamination, shouldn't other Baffert horses have similar results as well? What fluke caused him and him only to get that high of a number?

Rule that out... then try to figure out why scopolamine might help a racehorse.
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  Quote beisbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:11pm
The dose for Transderm scopolamine patch for humans is 1 mg and you wear it for three days.

Damn!
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  Quote dixiedotco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 2:09pm
6 other horses in 4 different barns also came back with a positive scopolamine test, FWIW.
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  Quote waremblem5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by beisbol


If that is too metaphorical for you, please attack the NYTimes and Fox News and whatever other media you don't like, elsewhere.


I'm called a disgusting human being whose existence was wished away but you want to moderate opinions on media outlets?


What's a good metaphor for your pseudo-science breakdown of scopolamine? Oh...wait..it's coming to me...fake news. Yes, that's it.

UPDATE: Churchill Downs Racetrack president Kevin Flanery issued a statement Thursday afternoon, saying Justify’s drug tests before and after the Kentucky Derby came back clean.In a letter to New York Times reporter Joe Drape, Robertson wrote that the report was “extremely disappointing. Horse racing is a tremendous sport and Mr. Baffert conducts himself with honesty, class and character. They both deserve better.”

In an interview with the Bloodhorse Baffert said, "I've never administered that drug or had it administered to one of my horses," Baffert said. "I wouldn't even know how it would come - what form it would come in."...."The general public has to be educated that we do have contamination. It's common sense that nobody would intentionally give their horses something like (scopolamine). I wouldn't do that. When it happened, I was like, Seriously? That's ridiculous. I turned it over to my attorney because I was trying to win a Derby."

Elliot Walden, president and CEO of WinStar Farm added; "This has been very disappointing," Walden said. "It is ridiculous it is even being brought up now. I mean, scopolamine is a known contaminant in California. Other top trainers have dealt with the issue. It is a shame for Bob's reputation, Justify's reputation, and our reputation. Bob has been a great ambassador for the sport, and his reputation speaks for itself."   
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  Quote tyedye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by waremblem5

Originally posted by beisbol


If that is too metaphorical for you, please attack the NYTimes and Fox News and whatever other media you don't like, elsewhere.


I'm called a disgusting human being whose existence was wished away but you want to moderate opinions on media outlets?


What's a good metaphor for your pseudo-science breakdown of scopolamine? Oh...wait..it's coming to me...fake news. Yes, that's it.

UPDATE: Churchill Downs Racetrack president Kevin Flanery issued a statement Thursday afternoon, saying Justify’s drug tests before and after the Kentucky Derby came back clean.In a letter to New York Times reporter Joe Drape, Robertson wrote that the report was “extremely disappointing. Horse racing is a tremendous sport and Mr. Baffert conducts himself with honesty, class and character. They both deserve better.”

In an interview with the Bloodhorse Baffert said, "I've never administered that drug or had it administered to one of my horses," Baffert said. "I wouldn't even know how it would come - what form it would come in."...."The general public has to be educated that we do have contamination. It's common sense that nobody would intentionally give their horses something like (scopolamine). I wouldn't do that. When it happened, I was like, Seriously? That's ridiculous. I turned it over to my attorney because I was trying to win a Derby."

Elliot Walden, president and CEO of WinStar Farm added; "This has been very disappointing," Walden said. "It is ridiculous it is even being brought up now. I mean, scopolamine is a known contaminant in California. Other top trainers have dealt with the issue. It is a shame for Bob's reputation, Justify's reputation, and our reputation. Bob has been a great ambassador for the sport, and his reputation speaks for itself."   


For someone who runs so ragged on "bleeding heart liberals" it really is quite adorable of you to quote such incredibly subjective garbage.

Your post literally has the opinions of three obviously biased people and want this to be some sort of convincing? How do you exist without regularly punching yourself in the face?

Who needs facts or investigations or due diligence when the opinions of the "elite" can feed your raging naivety?
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  Quote trooper7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 3:46pm
What's a good metaphor for your pseudo-science breakdown of scopolamine? Oh...wait..it's coming to me...fake news. Yes, that's it.

This is a vacuous statement. Unbelievably juvenile. This would be an interesting debate if the issue hadn't degraded into a 3rd grade playground hissy fit.

I'm embarrassed for both you and Pye. Argue as if you're brighter than a 10 watt bulb.

I'm sorry I need to post this.

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  Quote bigblueracing6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 5:06pm
Interesting read from the Courier Journal today... https://amp.courier-journal.com/amp/2302103001

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  Quote beisbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 5:33pm
Here's some more "pseudo-science" from the American Academy of Clinical Chemistry.

http://www.aacc.org/community/divisions/tdm-and-toxicology/toxin-library/jimson-weed

Like anything in life, it seems we'll need a lot more information to make a reasonable conclusion. Contamination seems the most likely cause here, but that's not the point.

Just because the general public is ignorant about the finer points of horse racing and clinical science, a cover-up (even if no crime is committed) is neither beneficial nor justifiable.

Pun slightly intended.

The fact that Walden is on Twitter hashtagging 'fakenews' tells me all I need to know about motivations. The Drape story was trash, but that does not mean exoneration of the CHRB or accountability for Baffert.





Edited by beisbol - 13 Sep 2019 at 5:36pm
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